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neku wrote (edited )

Nowadays if you're on the left and you don't condemn the war with the most hysterics and bluster and calls for immediate intervention of a Rachel Maddow or a CNN you're assumed to be a closet Putin apologist or - gasp - a tankie, which is the worst thing anyone could ever be. There's value in being level-headed, and let's be real: the statements of the DSA international committee do not affect anything anywhere at all. Why even bother getting pressed about it

Fundamentally, this thread they've published isn't even about the war! It's about how the war has been exploited by moneyed interests! They made a separate statement over here which parallels with that Russian anarchist statement just fine. Apples and oranges

Also, the person we really ought to listen to is Noam Chomsky and the publication to read to stay informed on the war in Ukraine is The Jacobin.

What are you talking about???

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Moonside wrote

There's value in being level-headed, and let's be real: the statements of the DSA international committee do not affect anything anywhere at all. Why even bother getting pressed about it

But I enjoy dunking on them. There's a distinct pleasure in it. If I were positioned better, perhaps I could have slight impact on discrediting them enough for them to be replaced, but alas, I don't hold myself to have such powers.

Fundamentally, this thread they've published isn't even about the war! It's about how the war has been exploited by moneyed interests!

I certainly didn't get the impression myself. Rather mine was that the explicit purpose of the thread was to oppose war hawks, but even then I find it untenable to conflate them with moneyed interests.That is, I ain't no vulgar Marxist on the war in Ukraine.

On the analytical side of foreign policy, I find it most regrettable that Iraq war has so much shaped leftist anti-imperialism, especially so given how enthusiastically the false explanation through greed of oil is still being endorsed as an explanation for that war. Wars are no mere repetitions, but have their own complex sets of causes.

What are you talking about???

I just find it cringe to so strongly appeal to saint Noam and The Jacobin. It reeks of parochialism concerning a conflict in Eastern Europe, which is a bad look for an International Committee, like they were just indulging in some light reading from vaguely lefty spaces and making things up as they go.

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twovests wrote

Also, the person we really ought to listen to is Noam Chomsky and the publication to read to stay informed on the war in Ukraine is The Jacobin.

What are you talking about???

I'm mainly lurking here but FWIW I read this as part of "The seeming conclusion", i.e. a take being criticized. I.e.

The seeming conclusion is [some stuff]. Also, the person we really ought to listen to is Noam Chomsky and the publication to read to stay informed on the war in Ukraine is The Jacobin.

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neku wrote

sure, but that's still totally unsupported by the actual contents of the thread??? its easy to say that DSA nerds love chomsky and jacobin, but the IC thread didnt have anything to do with them. just seemed like a totally unrelated barb thrown in for no reason

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devtesla wrote

it's online posting snark, Lol. I think it's a weird thing to be snarky about but whatever just post

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twovests wrote

Ah I misunderstood you. I thought you interpreted that as an unrelated and sincere suggestion from Moonside that we only listen to Chomsky and Jacobin

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neku wrote

oh yeah no i knew that was sarcastic. but there just wasnt anything in the dsa thread about jacobin or chomsky so i was like ??? where did this come from

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Moonside wrote

I'm just finding the appeal to Jacobin and Noam Chomsky to be signs of parochial and a sign of inflexibility, inability to develop self-standing expertise and research outside of one's own echo chamber, but it is also snark just as /u/devtesla said.